Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:44:30 -0700 (PDT) To: 72326.3625@compuserve.com From: curator Subject: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CAREFULLY. tO THE iNSIDERS UFOS LIST: and all other lists: Warning to implantees: "Implantees" who are considering a removal, should contact ONLY highly respected and reputable researchers who can guarantee that the analysis done on the implant is by responsive and responsible labs that are not gov't agencies in disguise who will "lose" the implant. I.e., Dr. Mack, Budd Hopkins, Dr. Jacobs, and others. The Leir/Sims removal has not been reported on as to content, as per the implantee, Pat Parinello, in two years! Aug l995-Aug l997. 2) If you are "blessed" as to having two implants, SAVE ONE!!!!! Give it to a lawyer you trust. 3) If your researcher wants you to sign lots of releases and contracts, as I saw happening at Dr. Leir's office, (I was there!!) be sure YOU GET A PIECE OF THE ACTION!!! -Percentage of lecture fees, photos, videos, and tv broadcast fees!!! The implant is YOUR property! See a lawyer before you sign anything! The Leir/Sims implantees got zero, zip, nada, nothing. No fees, not a dime from lectures and videos and tv,etc. Erik Beckjord, listmaster. - - - - >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:44:30 -0700 (PDT) >To: 72326.3625@compuserve.com >From: curator >Subject: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CAREFULLY. > tO THE iNSIDERS UFOS LIST: and all other lists: > Warning to implantees: > "Implantees" who are considering a removal, should contact ONLY > highly respected and reputable researchers who can guarantee that > the analysis done on the implant is by responsive and responsible labs > that are not gov't agencies in disguise who will "lose" the implant. > I.e., Dr. Mack, Budd Hopkins, Dr. Jacobs, and others. >The Leir/Sims removal has not been reported on as to content, as per the >implantee, Pat Parinello, in two years! Aug l995-Aug l997. [snipped] > Erik Beckjord, listmaster. Wes?? What the hell is this missive from someone named Eric? Individuals who think they are implanted should go to a health care professional to have the microchips removed. Yes, they can request that the microchips be given back to them. (I asked for my gall stones, and they were sitting on the table next to my hospital bed the next morning after the operation. Eventually, I disposed of them, but I had to see the size of the stone for myself.) The advice provided is not creditable, especially if it is invasive surgery into and around the brain or eyes. Implantees should be advised to see their doctor. As it should be obvious from the many academic journal which I forwarded, implantation with microchips has been a surgical process for a long time for many different reasons. Kathy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- \_______________________________________________/ UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0145 An E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of UFO Related Phenomena UFO UpDates Instant Archive now available at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates MUFON Ontario's Home Page: http://www.globalserve.net/~updates/mufon/ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:34:34 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto From: John Velez Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CARE >From: KKASTEN@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu [Kathy Kasten] >To: west@sonic.net [Wes Thomas] >Cc: logger@california.com, updates@globalserve.net, >Subject: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CARE >Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 08:28:00 PDT > >Wes?? >What the hell is this missive from someone named Eric? Individuals who think >they are implanted should go to a health care professional to have the >microchips removed. Yes, they can request that the microchips be given back to >them. (I asked for my gall stones, and they were sitting on the table next >to my hospital bed the next morning after the operation. Eventually, I >disposed of them, but I had to see the size of the stone for myself.) >The advice provided is not creditable, especially if it is invasive surgery >into and around the brain or eyes. >Implantees should be advised to see their doctor. As it should be obvious >from the many academic journal which I forwarded, implantation with >microchips has been a surgical process for a long time for many different >reasons. >Kathy >----------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Eric, hi Kathy, hi All, I'm really glad that this one came up. First I want to say that I agree with Kathy but with a couple of exceptions. "Implants" (if that's what they are, terms like 'microchip' are premature unless you know of some analytical data that I am unfamiliar with) should NOT BE REMOVED unless they are very close to the surface or very easily accessible and not near any sensitive areas. i.e.; organs, nerves, brain. That's just common sense. The health, safety and physical well being of the 'candidate' must always be the prime directive, research be damned! What is with this stampede to surgery? We don't know anything about the nature of these things, but enough of them have already been recovered to have gotten (some) answers. Why we haven't is a mystery to me as deep as alien abduction itself. 'Researchers' can wait if it means jeopardizing someone s health just to recover one of these 'things'. My good buddy Pat P is still waiting for Sims & Co. to report on the surgery that they subjected him to! Yeah right, go to a 'researcher'! Which brings me to: People who suspect they are being abducted should _NOT GO TO AN ABDUCTION RESEARCHER_! (Hah, turned a few heads with that one I'm sure!) Tell you why. a. Unless people start going to mental health care professionals and to their family physicians or clinics and reporting TO THEM what's going on, we're never going to get the attention of the mainstream scientific community. When 'abductees' start showing up in _their_ offices with the same frequency that they run to the Macks, Hopkins, and Jacobs, we'll see some real research and papers posted quicker than you can skin a cat. b. Abduction researchers have their minds made up about what's going on! Don't get me wrong, so do many professionals, but we need to break the ice somewhere or we're just stuck. If we don't give them a chance to get to know us and study us a bit we'll never get anywhere. I believe that the aliens and their 'star cars' and the abductions are very real. I have seen them. I'm not so dysfunctional that I cannot trust what my eyes and fellow witnesses show and tell me. But, NO-ONE KNOWS FOR SURE WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON! We simply have to use any means available to get some answers. Abduction researchers are not (the only) source for those answers. WE are doing ourselves a grave injustice and dis-service by going to "abduction researchers" exclusively rather than to a good 'shrink' or a trusted physician. We need to engage as many "trained" individuals as we can. If you really want to be a "pioneer" do what I and many others have done. Walk into the office of an experienced psychologist or psychiatrist, tell them the truth, and demand a complete psychological work up. Now _that_ takes real courage. And, if enough people start doing that, the rest will just take care of itself. Believe me, these people are not all, 'evil, sour, skeptics' waiting to dismiss you and cure you of your 'delusions.' For the most part, our mental health care people are intelligent open minded professionals who can put two and two together if they start getting enough of these cases. It's our own damn fault that it hasn't happened yet! The doctor I went to for an evaluation was very open minded about the material I presented. There have been enough books written, abductee testimony taken, and speculation, to choke a horse. (Several horses!) I want to know what the hell is going on and why! Simple, uncomplicated truth. All we're ever going to get from "Abduction researchers" are more books and more lectures. Besides, you'll want to go to several people who will be (as completely objective as possible) and not have his or her mind already made up about the nature of what is happening to us. If you do, then you're just looking for "reinforcement" and not for truth. -------------------------------- To Mike, and His Most Esteemed Grace - The Duke, and any others who lay our experiences on the doorstep of 'psychological phenomena' I say, it's still way too soon to call it one way or the other. Plus, I resent the implication that I (and others) cannot distinguish between a purely psychological and an actual event. The 'psychological interpretation' does not take into account the very real physical component that is associated with the abductions, it does not consider the ground trace evidence where these 'craft' have landed while carrying out their business, nor does it deal with corroborative witness testimony from individuals not directly associated with the event. i.e.: witnesses to UFO events or sightings in or near the vicinity of a reported abduction. (Example: 'Debby Jordan' case, recounted in 'Intruders' contains _all_ of these elements!) But then that's why I co-operated with the 'Spooky Duke', and the folks at NOVA. I've got nothing to hide, I'm telling the truth. I have lived a very full and self-actualized life. I've tried to maintain a, serious, thoughtful and open minded attitude and approach to all of this. I have always made myself available to those who are doing 'serious' research or exploring relevant and important questions. I have volunteered to take polygraph examinations, physical exams, psychological exams administered by professionals of their choice etc etc etc. Not enough others (abductees who have chosen to report publicly) are doing that. In fact many of them are so busy wrapping the whole experience in beliefs gleaned from others who have not substantiated them in the first place, that few actually take the time to actually 'investigate' the true nature of their own experiences! It's unbelievable. I don't just label everyone who is skeptical, "a debunker" and dismiss and push them away, I embrace intelligent and honest skeptics. *Mostly because they want the same questions answered that I do! If we're ever going to get abduction research anywhere past the stage of 'the web' and 'the bookshelves' we're going to have to engage the professional community head on. It's okay though, they're just folks like us. And, even though I've been burned a couple of times, it's up to us who we choose to contact about our experiences. Don't go running thoughtlessly to the abduction researchers before taking the time to learn of all the possible ramifications and exploring all of the alternatives. I've had to learn all of this from mistakes and experience, do with it what you will. Food for thought and just one mamaluks opinion. John Velez, Abductee Union Rep. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net From: Chris Rutkowski Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: IMPLANTEES BEWARE To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:49:49 -0500 (CDT) > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:34:34 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto > From: John Velez > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CARE > they subjected him to! Yeah right, go to a 'researcher'! > Which brings me to: People who suspect they are being abducted should _NOT > GO TO AN ABDUCTION RESEARCHER_! (Hah, turned a few heads with that one I'm > sure!) Not me, John. I would agree with you. In fact, I stated that view more than a year ago, but my comment was not well received. However, I have a slightly different reason, too. Since abductees have been coming to me for help (about 1988), I have dealt with one attempted suicide, two threatened suicides and numerous cases in which the individuals clearly needed medical and psychiatric attention. One man was certified psychotic and had actually murdered someone because of instructions from an an alien entity. In no uncertain terms, abductees need the care and compassion of clinical professionals, not UFO investigators. I cannot imagine how much damage could be done (to or by anyone) if an abductee with trauma and some kind of psychopathology was to get "counseled" by an ardent UFO buff. (Well, I *can* imagine what would happen, that's the problem.) Most abduction researchers/therapists/counselors simply do not have the clinical expertise and knowledge to assist abductees with their plight. I work with the cooperation of clinicians, and then only under extreme circumstances. We're dealing with *people* here, not just UFO witnesses. I'm very concerned that abductees may not be getting the best care and advice. Of course, the problem is that there are not enough trained professionals who are sympathetic and well-versed in this subject. How this can be resolved, I do not know. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada \_______________________________________________/ UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0145 An E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of UFO Related Phenomena UFO UpDates Instant Archive now available at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates MUFON Ontario's Home Page: http://www.globalserve.net/~updates/mufon/ From: KKASTEN@pathology.medsch.ucla.edu [Kathy Kasten] To: west@sonic.net [Wes Thomas] Cc: logger@california.com, updates@globalserve.net, Subject: IMPLANTEES BEWARE/CHOOSE RESEARCHER CARE Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 08:28:00 PDT